Going to a restaurant should be like going to a movie theater - you need to experience something that won't happen at home. Like films, each dish on our menu has a history, image, associations, ideological intent and, most importantly, a gastronomic plot. I always have them - from the taste memory of the food of childhood and youth. For example, there is such an image-memory - canned food heated on a fire “Tourist’s Breakfast”. Based on it, we prepare smoked beef tartare with pearl barley, molding it into a ring from a tin can. The new Russian cuisine of our restaurant is made only from local products, and the menu changes according to the schedule of the appearance of nature's gifts.
Actually, cinema, mentioned above as a metaphor, is also not alien to me. I love movies like Mad Max. Fury Road is a two-hour action game with non-stop racing. I’m really looking forward to the new episode of Star Wars, Alien directed by Neill Blomkamp and the continuation of the Twin Peaks series. The first season of this TV show is the first movie that really captivated me. Lynch's feature film, however, like Lars von Trier's, is close to me only from their early, not too sophisticated, work: their late gloomy art house does not really appeal to me. Still, cinema should be life-affirming.
My most important non-work interest, after family, is Buddhism. It attracts me not as a religion, but as a philosophy that explains a lot - not in the manner of blind faith, but rationally. For example, this teaching says that human life is only a small segment on the endless path of the soul, that any whole is a part of an even larger whole, that nothing is finite, there is no last thing. Now think: for a long time the smallest particle in existence was believed to be the atom. Then - that these are electrons. And now they have discovered that there is even less - the Higgs boson. Of course, they will also find the next smallest one - as Buddhists say, any moment will have a predecessor, nothing can be born out of nowhere. Buddhism, in fact, has very practical, philistine benefits - you learn to unlock your potential, experience joy rather than negative emotions. My wife introduced me to this “science of consciousness” after she attended lectures by the Dalai Lama’s envoy to Russia, Thubten Samdup. Now I also go to them; before my daughter was born, we went to a Buddhist retreat camp on Lake Baikal to clear my head.
In general, I am close to leisure activities that involve solitude - hiking, mountains, tents, so that without phones, alone with yourself. During my student years, I was professionally involved in mountain tourism and mountaineering. A healthy lifestyle is not a problem for me: I roller skate, go for bike rides. Having joined Buddhism, my wife and I completely gave up smoking and drinking - not that I was into it before, but Russia, in my opinion, suffers greatly from alcohol.
Chef Igor Grishechkin has been dealing exclusively with seasonal and local products for almost five years: having moved from Moscow to St. Petersburg, he first worked in the local branch of Lavkalavka, and since 2012 he has been in charge of the kitchen of the restaurant of Sergei and Matilda Shnurov.
About how it all began
For as long as I can remember, I have always loved to cook. In addition, I was aware of all the intricacies of seasonal subsistence farming. We had a country house in Smolensk, we lived there both in winter and summer. A cow, piglets, chickens, even ducks and geese, a cellar, a smokehouse, a large vegetable garden where fruit trees grew. We harvested the crops, stored them in the cellar, slaughtered pigs in the fall, salted lard in a barrel, smoked the meat, and sealed the marinades. I watched all the processes: how they were slaughtered, how they were cut up, I ate raw pig ears. When a pig is slaughtered, they singe the ear with a torch, clean it with a knife, sprinkle it with salt and eat the salted cartilage. I don’t even know if I could repeat it now, but then it was natural and normal. My father and I went fishing: I didn’t have much passion for it, but at least I knew how to clean fish. I look at what is happening now: my daughter, for example, doesn’t see any of this, everything is packaged, in a vacuum or frozen, but we always had everything fresh - and the same fresh milk. It affected me a lot.
The realization that I wanted to devote my life to working in the kitchen did not come to me right away. Before studying at a culinary college - and this only happened at the age of 25 - I received the profession of manager of social and cultural activities. In 2007, immediately after college, I got a job in the Smolensk restaurant “Ya-cafe” - a very stylish establishment at that time. They prepared simple things there, but I discovered a lot for myself - for example, I tried arugula for the first time, mastered new techniques, but at that time there was no talk of any sous vide at all. Then there was Moscow. First, the French restaurant “White Square” (Carre Blanc. - Note ed.), then - “Casta Diva” by Andrei Dellos, where I worked for two years. The whole team was being recruited, and chef Michele Broggioni gave me a chance, despite the fact that I had almost no experience.
Then I went abroad for a while: I was offered a job as a chef in a restaurant in Tenerife, but it didn’t work out - there were problems with paperwork. After returning to Moscow, I got a job at the small French bistro “Remy” with Ilya Shalev - this was before the whole story with Ragout and the gastronomic revolution. Then Ilya went to Ragout, I left after him and a month later I became a sous-chef. The second sous-chef was Misha Gerashchenko, who later was the chief of Ugolok for a long time.
Ragout was already a completely different story - a super popular place from the first day, always packed. Nobody has done this in Moscow, they say that all this (the new gastronomic movement) began with Ragout. That summer, the forests were burning, people were wearing respirators on the street, and our veranda was full, and people were standing in line, waiting for a seat.
From Ragout I left to work as a chef in an establishment called “War Elephants of Blogistan” at “Red October”. At that time there were already many restaurants there - Strelka, Bontempi, Ryvkin's United Kitchen, each door was the entrance to a restaurant or gallery. One of the owners of BSB, Jovan Savovich, was the founder of the Lepra and Dirty.ru websites and came up with a space for bloggers to meet. But people who are very active online don't go out very often. There was no clear concept, and at that time I already had a lot of ideas and ambitions - and they needed to be systematized. This is inevitable: when you work with someone for a long time and leave from under his wing to do something of your own, you still quote the teacher - until you clear the fog from your head. A mix of what I learned from Ilya, from Michele, I tried to cram in some of my own ideas - the menu was chaotic, of course. No thoughts yet about farm products or anything like that. The founders liked everything, but they didn’t understand that it didn’t fit the format.
After BSB, I worked for a year as a chef in a cafe at an expensive furniture store. There was supposed to be a good business lunch and quick, understandable food. And here I am with my ideas! There I just came up with " Guryev porridge"(This dessert used to be on the Kokoko menu. - Note ed.), the first variation of mackerel salad, which we now have on the menu. Then I met my future wife - she is from St. Petersburg - and we moved to St. Petersburg.
In St. Petersburg, I was hired as a chef at the local branch of Lavkalavka (now closed. - Note ed.). Farm products arrived there, they were packaged, and I used whatever was left after packaging for dinners in the gastronomic lounge. People came for shopping and stayed for dinner, sometimes they came specially. Sergei and Matilda Shnurov (the leader of the Leningrad group and his wife, the owners of the new Russian cuisine restaurant Kokoko) came to one of these dinners. Note ed.). They liked everything, we signed an agreement, and from then on my story at Kokoko began.
From the first launch of the menu, I began to come up with interesting features that were conceptually correct. In April there is virtually nothing from food, then I came up with a vinaigrette soup, potatoes on the ground from bread. It would be boring to just cook food from farm produce without a concept. Although even before this it was not that simple, from that time - that is, from the very first menu - even a few dishes remained: baked beet salad with mousse Adyghe cheese, tenderloin with kvass sauce, baked onions and beets, farmer's burger - everything has been modified over time, but the essence has remained the same. In the first menu update, “Spring Tourist” appeared (now it is “Tourist’s Breakfast”), then the “Cow” dessert - they are also still on the menu.
In the photo: dessert “Cameo” from the main menu (250 RUR)
About the meaning of working with farm products, suppliers and constant search
When the St. Petersburg “Lavka” closed, we changed all suppliers. It’s one thing when you work with an online store where you collect orders once a week, but it’s another thing to supply an entire restaurant. There are many requirements here: how high quality everything is, how stable it is, whether they listen to us, whether they are attentive to comments. We have our own database, which becomes more extensive and detailed every year. We created it through trial and error and continue to develop it to diversify the range.
For us, after the sanctions, nothing has changed: it has become neither easier nor more difficult. An embargo was introduced, people were presented with a fait accompli, they have no choice. About 5 years ago, no one thought about this: you can buy Parmesan in any store, but now it’s rare, everyone is looking for local cheeses. But we were always focused on this; we already had a cheese supplier, which had no analogues in the region.
We don't use tomatoes in winter; we have cucumbers by July. Just as a certain scheme for updating the menu appeared when Kokoko opened, we live with it to this day. Everything is there point by point. The first menu, spring, is wild herbs, because there is nothing yet, and in May there is nothing yet. Then sorrel, green onions, radishes - this is June. In July - cucumbers, in August - tomatoes, zucchini, in September - pumpkin. And in winter - these are root vegetables, pickles, and sauerkraut. Now look at the menu - cereals and root vegetables dominate. We are launching several appetizers with lettuce leaves just for the season, but we currently don’t have a single dish that uses lettuce leaves. No frisee, no spinach. And I’m thinking - is anyone paying attention to this?
And it’s not even that cucumbers are tasteless in winter, that’s obvious. As a last resort, you can take expensive cucumbers or Baku tomatoes - upside down, wrapped in newspaper, which cost 500 rubles. Nowadays you can bring anything from the other side of the world. It's a matter of position. I rewatched “Noma” - my perfect storm” (a documentary film by Pierre Deschamps about the Danish restaurant Noma and its chef Rene Redzepi, released in 2015. - Note ed.) and somehow looked at it all differently. Rene Redzepi has the same thoughts - does anyone need this? Will anyone even appreciate this? What am I doing? Why am I doing this? Make it clear on the plate where you are and at what time of year. This is true. Now the boundaries are so blurred, you can buy any product, all the techniques are available, trends come in waves: first everyone idolizes one thing, then another. But to be in your place, to defend your position - this is the dignity and meaning. You are not chasing fashion, you are not trying to bend to the changing world - you proudly carry this banner.
Our suppliers are mainly from the Leningrad region. There are some things that we bring, one might say, from afar - for example, black caviar “Pearl of the Caspian”, this is a high-quality Russian product and suppliers who are close to us in spirit. This theme is so Russian that you definitely want to have it. But we will not, for example, bring seafood from the Far East, because it is strange - there are thousands of kilometers between us. This is already closer to Japan than to us. What's the point of bringing it to us and saying that it's a Russian product? For fish and seafood, we work with Murmansk. Urchins, fish, caviar, we are now working on a supplier who will supply seaweed and scallops. In general, we are constantly looking. There, of course, the infrastructure is poorly established - well, that is, in Russian. Very close to the sea, it is possible to provide everything. And I communicate with them and wonder why there is such a limited choice? Yes, because quotas are given only for a certain type. Why only freezing? And because they go to sea for 5 days and cannot bring fresh food, they freeze it right there and deliver it.
In addition, we have been working with the herbalist for a long time. This is an Old Believer with long hair and a ribbon on his forehead. Sometimes you call him and say that we need a delivery on Wednesday, and he replies that he looked at the lunar calendar and cannot collect grass today. Now, in the off-season, we use pickled ones: we have meadowsweet marinated in oil - we will make a pumpkin dressing with flax chips. Well, we use some dried ones, but again we are preparing for spring. We marinate maple leaves in vinegar, make chips and use them in the American Breakfast dish. That is, what we did in May came in handy in February. There are many unused medicinal chamomile flowers, some in vinegar, others in oil - I’m thinking about their applicability. There are a lot of rosehip petals in oil - they have a very bright taste, they need to be used in doses.
In the photo: “White filling” - custard with the taste of apple seeds under a skin of cranberry jelly, lingonberries in honey syprop and scoops of sour cream ice cream in raspberry powder (one of the dishes of the autumn-winter menu 2016)
About familiar products and their uniqueness
For example, cod liver from Murmansk is a really interesting product. Finally we found a good supplier and did a lot of digging. I don't think there are many products that make us unique. And these are the ones that need to be emphasized. For any foreigner this will be an interesting taste experience. In France there is foie gras, a delicacy for us, and we have an imitation of foie gras - cod liver. Brioche, spicy apple chutney, liver - the effect is unexpected and cool. I also heard about cod tongues, I’ll have to try them.
I'm trying to draw people's attention to these products, they are understandable and familiar, but we are used to eating them in some kind of salad or from a jar on black bread with green onions. And when you make a beautiful terrine from cod liver, and it lies in beautiful plate, it's a completely different effect, it's really like foie gras. You see a familiar product from a different angle. For example, our tubes with sprat mousse - this dish does not work directly, it is built on associations. Sprats for some people are like a fairy tale about lost time. I don't agree with this. Yes, in the USSR there were no crazy specialties, everything was of the Stovsky type, but you need to look at it more deeply, look for the objectively better side, highlight the accents. You don't have to make Olivier if you don't like it.
Spanish or Italian modern kitchen They rely on tradition, take food that is still common in ordinary families, and elevate it to the rank of haute cuisine, using extravagant presentation and sophisticated techniques. At Osteria Francescana you try - oh, and this is actually bread with tomatoes, oh, and this is lasagne bolognese. Bottura (Massimo Bottura, chef of the Osteria Francescana restaurant, in 2017 - No. 2 in The World’s 50 Best Restaurants rating. - Note ed.) takes the entire base and produces a completely new product from it. It seems to me that we are doing something in the same vein.
About sets on Thursdays
The Thursday sets are a more experimental story. The main menu is strictly planned based on the choice and volume of products, and the sets are formed almost online - a dish can be invented day after day, depending on what interesting things were brought for sampling: foie gras, hedgehogs, and so on. This volume is just enough for eight people. Last year, a mushroom picker worked with us and, starting in April, every week he brought something incredible to the set. We met him when we put up an ad that we were looking for a mycologist, he responded and came. I say that I have a book about mushrooms of the Leningrad region. And he turned out to be its author! In April, for example, there was scarlet sarcoscipha. She is like a snowdrop: as soon as the snow begins to melt in the forest, she immediately appears - so bright, bright red. Then morels, lines and so on. There was also a liverwort - it looks like beef tongue, you cut on a slicer and see the veins of meat, you press - and it’s as if blood is oozing, and this is juice. After frying in a pan, it shrinks like bacon. Interesting taste, slightly reminiscent of mushroom, slightly sour. We even tried the pink-gray fly agaric, it is edible, there are also a lot of varieties of them.
In the photo: seasonal appetizer of Sarcoscypha scarlet (one of the dishes of the special May set in 2016)
About the image of a chef working with farm products
Yes, the image of a cook who works with farm or local products is usually drawn romantically: he goes into the forest, collects blades of grass and roots, drinks fresh milk from a village grandmother - and everything in that spirit. As in Fäviken (a Swedish restaurant located in Åre and using local products; in 2017 - No. 57 in The World’s Best Restaurants rating. - Note ed.) - they really go into the forest before the service. Of all the chefs, Magnus Nilsson probably inspires me the most. We visited him twice. He is the standard of locavore thought, he is truly isolated from the outside world. It is very difficult not to succumb to temptation, being in the epicenter, when you have all the suppliers at your fingertips. And here you are in the outskirts, it’s an hour’s drive from the city to the restaurant, around forests, fields, and you have a small cellar, and at the same time you are a terrible perfectionist. His food is not only ideologically verified, it is also very tasty.
If we talk about us, we work in a restaurant with a lot of traffic. Yes, when we were working on the “wild” menu, we went with a herbalist into the forest and walked with her, tried it. Again, we discussed not only the taste, but also how much she could bring at one time. I can make a puree from nettles, but we put 3-4 pieces of sorrel on top: we collect it with our fingers one at a time, and the price is 3000 rubles. per kg. And so we go and discuss with her - how much will it grow? When does it leave? So one of our main tasks is not romantic collecting, but planning. Deadlines are very limited.
In summer our menu changes every 3 weeks. Onions, beets and kvass are always available, and seasonal products are always spontaneous guests. Soon we will start meeting with farmers - this year we decided to start seriously harvesting in the summer. Last year we also did this and it was very cool - we have a whole batch of pickled mini carrots with tails, they will be on this April menu. In general, all this is difficult to calculate - you need to plant it at intervals of several days so that one batch grows, does not disappear and is enough. They plant a whole garden for us. We look at the varieties, select the seeds, and they plant the beds. There are already several people who cooperate only with us. Farmers must also understand that they will be provided for, that everything must be realized for them, and we give such guarantees. But you can’t predict the weather or volumes under the conditions that existed last year.
All normal cooks think about how to use what remains from used products. As with farm products, everyone suddenly began to prove that they only work with local products. The prefix “farm” is sometimes completely inappropriate. It’s the same here: after some time, wastelessness will become commonplace. Everyone will start beating their chest and saying: “I use everything from tail to hoof.” It all depends on how your head works. In the kitchen, this is generally an unspoken right - to throw away less, and how much less depends on your imagination, on knowledge. Let me give you an example: our smelt ceviche. We took the bones, washed them, deep-fried them and served them along with the ceviche in a separate bowl, like chips. Small, aesthetically pleasing, they are fried - with herring, for example, this trick will not work. That is, waste-free use of products is simply part of daily work.
About the dessert “Mom’s Favorite Flower” and the harmony of form and content
I come across the opinion that in “Kokoko” we are more about aesthetics and not about taste, that everything here is geared towards appearance. But behind this there is a deep philosophy that applies to literally everything: this is a limited selection of products, which determines a lot, and the dishes that we make ourselves.
I am for consistency between form and content. There are far-fetched techniques, far-fetched presentations. For example, it used to be fashionable to serve it on a tree cut. Firstly, this is not good in terms of hygiene: wood absorbs everything, you cannot wash it with anything. Even if we once served on wood, there was always a piece of parchment under the dish. We wanted to serve our “Porridge from an Axe” on a tree, but in the end we ordered plates in the form of a cut: there is a special recess for the pot and a recess for the hatchet. The handle is thrown into a special container, and the plate is simply washed like regular dishes. I wouldn't give away something that can't be washed and stained simply because it's my idea.
I always look at a dish from all sides. The external component is, of course, important. It's stupid to deny this, looking at my pitches. The same “Cameo” is the case when I came up with a taste to suit my idea. There is sourness here (yogurt), there is sweetness here (creme brulee), and the result is a balanced taste. Cameo is an ancient decoration that is more suitable for older people. Accordingly, before your eyes is the image of a grandmother, a chest of jewelry; grandmothers have bright, rich aromas of flowers, roses, silver lily of the valley. Rose and vanilla in this dessert are conservative, classic flavors, so I chose them. Here the textures are combined and the flavors are combined, and in the end the image is complete!
The same goes for “Mom’s Favorite Flower” - halva in chocolate. Some write: but we expected something else. What did you expect? There are those who don’t like halva at all and order this dessert. But the attitude towards the product will not suddenly change. There are 7 desserts on our menu, there is a choice. And if you just need to photograph it, then take a photograph, but why then talk about disappointment from its taste? I didn’t just decide - we conduct tastings and discuss. Again, chocolate and halva go together, chocolate and chili go together, chocolate and mint go together. In order for it not to be too sweet, we make the mousse not from heavy cream, but from sour cream; it turns out to be more sour and comes out balanced. Again, the appropriate use of chili - in the description I emphasize that it is like a punishment for a broken flower. That is, the harmonious taste combination is also logically justified. By texture: crispy thin (chocolate pot), airy halva mousse, crispy crumble. These are all thoughtful dishes, they are truly complete.
I never set myself the goal of connecting the incompatible. Quite simple, clear, traditional tastes. Borodino bread with sprats, pea soup with smoked meats, wild boar dumplings, but with broth from dried mushrooms. A familiar image is deconstructed and reassembled. I treat every dish like a child, and I don’t bring it out to the public if I’m not sure. Moreover, this is accompanied by a lot of things: while the dishes are being made, the technology is being developed 10 different ways plus it needs to be easy to repeat a hundred times. Every day we do tastings of all items, and this is 200 pieces, plates with preparations are collected, and each one is crossed out in turn.
Now we have come to the conclusion that each dish has its own story, its own plate - out of 32 menu items, we do not have a single identical plate. There are many cookware manufacturers, many food suppliers. There are 50 chefs working in our kitchen.
In the photo: lamb heart stroganoff with potato and nettle puree, mushroom sauce, leaves fresh sorrel and garlic chips (one of the dishes from last year’s “wild menu”)
Many, I’m sure, still have prejudices about hotel restaurants, but in general this is some kind of stupidity. “Kokoko” is an independent restaurant that rents space on the ground floor of the hotel; we have a separate entrance. Everyone was afraid that people wouldn’t go to the hotel, but they did. You see that people were going to that basement on Nekrasov Street, that they were going to the hotel, which means it’s not the main place after all. There this kitchen played on contrast, but here it looks more organic. Now "Kokoko" is big restaurant at a five-star hotel. But we are learning and developing.
This stupid habit people have is expectations and comparisons. All disputes are based on this. People read and heard, but things turned out differently for them. But this is just the opinion of an individual.
Probably the main problem now is that everyone is trying to share their opinions. Since the Internet came into our lives, everyone believes that they should be heard. A person comes to a restaurant, takes a dish, and then writes a 1500-character text about the restaurant. Not about the dish, about the restaurant. Why does he think it's bad for ordering 1.5 dishes. Having ordered “Mom’s Favorite Flower” and having tried another dish from someone else’s plate, he writes a review of the restaurant, puts all the hashtags and geotags so that it will be seen and responded to. I keep an eye on this myself, sometimes I even answer people something. I ask, why did you say that it was such and such? People don't understand the meaning of words. Are you ready to defend your point of view after making it public? This is the Internet, everyone can see it, and people form opinions under the influence of these constant pop-up stories.
I start arguing when I am one hundred percent sure that I am right. I even left all social networks at one time (now Igor Grishechkin can be found on instagram. - Note ed.), because sooner or later, when they start to hurt you, you start to respond. And I don’t want to turn into a troublemaker. Although there is increased interest in both our cuisine and our restaurant. Yes, sometimes I get very upset because of some comments, yes, words hurt me, but I prefer to defend my innocence with deeds, rather than participate in stupid disputes. There will always be supporters and opponents, and this is absolutely normal. Just take it and do it with quality in what you are convinced of, and sooner or later like-minded people will be drawn to you. You see, it seems like we cook everything without lettuce, but people are always sitting there.
In the photo: Chef Grishechkin in the Kokoko kitchen
About new Russian cuisine and its place on the world gastronomic scene
Russian cuisine was, is and will be. What was borrowed, what came from, these are discussions for historians. I'm not interested. For me this is already a given. That dumplings are ours, that borscht is ours. Now it begins: whose borscht? Two camps, almost a war. What's the difference! Since childhood I have eaten borscht and dumplings, for me this is Russian cuisine. 200 years ago, perhaps no one knew anything about sausage, but I have been eating sausage since childhood, and it came from Germany. Borscht from Ukraine, dumplings from China. Well, now, in this period of time in which I live, this is all my kitchen, I have known it since childhood, I transformed it and now I cook it. This is my Russian cuisine, and because it is relevant to this time and place, it means it is new. She's new, and she's Russian, period.
How do I create dishes? There are combinations that I want to introduce as an idea, there is simply a set of local products, I take them and make dishes that, in principle, have not yet existed. And there are also processing of recipes: kulebyaka, Leningrad rassolnik. I don’t rummage through encyclopedias, I don’t shout that this is a real kulebyaka according to Domostroi, I set myself a goal, I read that kulebyaka is layered cake, this is enough for me. Like borscht - a basic set of ingredients is enough, everyone prepares it as they want. Some people add garlic, some don't, and so on. Everyone thinks that his mother cooks the most delicious, let him think so. People try to share with everyone and convince everyone that they are right.
What is Russian cuisine missing to become a global trend? Time will pass, we need competent PR. It's like with the Peruvians. They managed to turn the spotlight in their direction and are now at the epicenter of events. Soon attention will shift to something else. To Mexican, for example, or Australian cuisine. It's the same with us. A backbone must be formed: several bright chefs with a recognizable style, interesting products, for example, dairy, pickles, mushrooms - and we are the center of attention.
PR is one of the sources of the formation of the “body”. It is there without it, but when the lantern is turned towards it, when it is beautifully illuminated, you look at it differently. If they say 100 times that this is fashionable and cool, it will be fashionable and cool. Moreover, we have potential. This whole advanced layer of chefs is enthusiastic and bright. We have a lot of foreigners, I invite them to the kitchen, and they say that yes, they looked at Russia, at Russian cuisine differently, and saw something new. And they have been to the best restaurants in the world, they have something to compare with.
In the photo: Black Russian pancakes - black pancakes stuffed with smoked halibut, boiled egg and herbs, sour cream and red caviar (one of the Russian Breakfast dishes)
About the Slow movementFood and plans for the future
Last year I joined the Chefs Alliance of the international Slow Food Foundation, which advocates for biodiversity and humane consumption - these are ideas that we ourselves adhere to. In honor of the entry, we were asked to come up with a special dish for the Terra Madre holiday, as close as possible to the idea of the movement. Plus a traditional plot that would emphasize our already heightened concept. This is how “Axe Porridge” appeared - green buckwheat with porcini mushrooms and stewed beef cheeks. This dish is indicative, it reflects our approach and is marked on the menu with a special icon.
As for the plans, I wouldn’t change anything. We want to go deeper and deeper into our roots, honing our skills. This is an endless process: here is Noma, they worked for 13 years, and then they took over and closed the restaurant, now they will rebuild it for a year and make it even cooler. They will have their own vegetable garden, their own farm, gardens. They realized that they had to go even further. Now we have several people who grow everything just for us - this, I think, is a big step. We meet, negotiate, travel, and so on ad infinitum. We thought about our own vegetable garden, but it is very expensive - both energetically and financially. This is a different story. It's good to have separation. I try to trust professionals in everything.
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Chef of the Bochka restaurant
Igor Bednyakov always wanted to become a chef, so he entered culinary school No. 41 and graduated with honors. After receiving his education, he got a job at the Fantasia restaurant, where he took his first practical steps in the profession. Then Igor moved to the Palace Hotel on Belorusskaya. The hotel kitchen was equipped with new equipment, rare for the 90s: combi steamers, blenders, vacuum degassers. Here the chef met modern technologies and honed his skills in cooking European cuisine. Then Igor Bednyakov was offered the position of sous-chef at the newly opened Cafe Pushkin. He worked there for four years and acquired a lot of knowledge about Russian cuisine while working with Andrey Makhov, and was recommended for the position of chef at the Bochka restaurant.
In the restaurant business I've been working for 30 years.
I became a chef, because my grandmother and mother were excellent cooks.
The hardest thing was learn to wield a knife correctly.
It still surprises me that, despite the opening of new restaurants, our guests are not decreasing.
I specialize in modern Russian cuisine, because I like it.
I do best meat dishes.
My most successful dish– a whole bullock on a spit.
My most unusual dish – marinated beef tenderloin baked in birch bark over coals.
The most unusual dish, which I tried was fried rooster legs.
My favorite ingredient- new!
I haven't liked it since childhood dairy products.
I don't like to work with desserts.
The perfect dish- dumplings.
I'm inspired love for the profession.
When I create a dish, I think about the guest to whom it will end up on the table.
My usual mood at work- proactive.
I can't in the kitchen I can do without spices, and I can do without oil.
Most of all I'm tired from the lack of initiative of the team.
The chef must be a competent organizer.
The concept chef of the St. Petersburg restaurant "Kokoko" - about local products and local chefs, about why difficulties are good, and about how to raise Russian cuisine to the heights of the world
Are you a Muscovite?
No, from Smolensk.
How did you get to Moscow?
In general, I did not receive a full-fledged professional chef education. I graduated from the Art Institute. Management of cultural activities.
What does it mean?
Well, that's what they called us: toastmaster. Organizer of all kinds of holidays. Activities related to concerts. Philharmonic societies, museums, cinemas are managers of such organizations where people receive not some material benefits, but pleasures and impressions. That is, in principle, the industries are somewhat similar to restaurants. And then I joined the army and thought - I was 24 years old - what I would like to do. I went through everything. I chose the only thing I was passionate about and had the ability for, and decided to start cooking. I completed courses at a technical school in Smolensk very quickly so that I could get a job. I went to practice at the best restaurant in the city at that time. I worked for six months and realized that this was the ceiling in Smolensk, I wouldn’t learn anything new. And six months later he left for Moscow.
What restaurant?
In Smolensk? "I am a cafe." It still exists, such a trendy place. Well, it was in those days, now, of course, I don’t know what’s happening there. I arrived in Moscow and immediately got a job at Casta Diva ( Italian restaurant by Andrey Dellos.- Approx. ed. ), it had just opened, the kitchen had not yet been opened, we washed everything there ourselves. Michele ( Broggioni, chief of Casta Diva.- Approx. ed. ) during the interview he asked me if I had any experience, I answered that I had very little, but I love cooking and am ready to devote myself completely to it. He hired me, for which I thank him very much. I worked there for three years.
And then?
Then I left for a while. To Spain, I was offered to open a restaurant there.
Open directly?
Well, yes. But great difficulties arose with doing business abroad for Russian people. I had to go back. Then I met Ilya Shalev. At first we worked with him at Remy. Then he met Alexei Zimin - and said that he was leaving for a new project. I asked to go with him. So he took me to Ragout. There I first worked a little as a cook, then became a sous-chef. We worked together for seven months from the opening, then I left. He became a chef: there was such an establishment at “Red October” - “Blogistan”. This is an offline space for bloggers. The kitchen there was excellent, gigantic, there was enough space and equipment, but the concept was vague. What do geeks need when they leave home? Well, shawarma and beer. There I tried to apply some of my experiences and skills, to implement some ideas, and the food there was good, tasty, and many people liked it. But there is such competition at Red October! There you have to be either mega-promoted, or really super-tasty, or some kind of ideological one in order for people to follow you. There's also Bontempi and a sea of everything. It was very difficult to compete, and we closed. Then he worked in another city cafe, attached to a showroom. And that’s it, I moved to St. Petersburg.
So, already in Smolensk you wanted not just to be a cook, but to create interesting cuisine?
I really wanted to study, because in any business the main thing is to get a good education. Not even for the sake, as is customary, just of a diploma. Nobody needs a diploma, they need specific skills, abilities, experience, this is the most important thing. I chose places based on the kitchen: I looked at the menu, found out who the chef was, read what kind of person he was, how he worked. Now you hire people and you’re surprised how many people don’t care where they work. You ask: “Have you heard anything about the restaurant?” - “This is Shnura’s restaurant” ( The Kokoko restaurant was invented by Sergei Shnurov and his wife Matilda.- Approx. ed. ). - “Anything else?” - "No". The first question is: what is the salary? The second question: is the employment official and what is the schedule?
And all the motivation?
Yes, that’s the motivation for 90 percent of people. But I never thought about money. First of all, it purely psychologically sets up the person you are interviewing. For example, it immediately annoys me - when the first thing a person does is ask about money. In my case, the issue of money was always decided at the very last moment. And an intelligent person, when he understands this, already evaluates you differently. When I got a job at Ragu, Ilya understood this and said: I see that you are a professional, how can you and I agree on such and such an amount? I said, okay, it was quite acceptable money for that time in Moscow.
So you are an easy-going person and easily decided to move to St. Petersburg?
Well, when I was young, of course. Now I have a family, and I won’t lose my temper if they call me to Moscow. And offers came many times, they even invited me to return to Dellos’s holding.
Why did you move?
In fact, I was tired in Moscow. With my ideas, I tried to fit into the cafe format, where no one needed it anywhere in principle. The founders liked it because it was interesting, but you understand how things usually happen with us. Not even because people don’t know how to do something, but because they don’t want to create unnecessary difficulties for themselves. Why do something complicated and painstaking when you can do it simpler. 95 percent of people go this route. I tried to complicate it and, as always, I encountered a whole wall of problems. With staff who don’t understand why all this is needed. Then I had to go to work for people when someone didn’t come out, overwork - in general, mind my own business. I got fed up with this and decided to move to St. Petersburg. Gain a little more experience. At that time, Alain Ducasse's Mix restaurant had just opened at the W Hotel, and I wanted to go there as a regular chef. I arrived and went there first. I waited a month for a response from them, but never received one. Sitting at home and doing nothing was boring. I also watched the Gran d Cru, but there were no empty seats there either. As a result, I got a job at Lavkulavka on Bolshaya Pushkarskaya - I saw an advertisement. Back then they were just opening, growing, trying to find interesting development options, and organizing gastronomic festivals. They had one large space with a podium where there was a table with a nice stove, it was cool. Behind the wall, in the next room, food was being packaged, and from what was left, dinner could be prepared. Every day - that's realistic - you could do something completely new. They wrote on the menu five dishes that I came up with, and that’s it. And those who came for groceries could also have dinner. It was great. This is a bit of a hipster story, but at least it was, as they say, true. When I came for an interview and said that I worked at Ragu, everyone’s eyes lit up and asked me to cook. I opened the refrigerator, took out zucchini, rabbit liver, apples, cooked it, everyone liked it. In principle, all dinners then went like this: you take what you have and cook. And one day I was preparing dinner and a couple came; I look and think: “It seems like a Cord.” And it turns out that they and Matilda entered into an agreement on products for their future restaurant. And at the same time they were looking for a chef. They tried what I was cooking and asked if I would like to try making a menu for them. I wrote a sample menu using the products that Lavkilavka had. And they offered me a tasting, then a menu. At the same time, I remained at the “Lavka” for several months when “Kokoko” opened. And when it started working at full capacity, I realized that the kitchen wouldn’t work without me. If the kitchen doesn't have the essentials, it can't work. And so I left Lavka.
What did you offer on that first menu?
Oh, in fact, everything was written on the knee. It's really just off the top of my head. At that time there was no such excitement with farm products, it was all just beginning, and the idea was to cook from them - from farm products from the Leningrad region. Baked tenderloin with kvass sauce and baked onions and beets - I just came up with such names. In fact, thirty percent of those first courses are still on our menu today because they were truly hits. Year-round story - burger, tenderloin with beets and onions, baked beets. Just baked beets, slightly pickled, large, Antonovka with honey, hazelnut nut sauce and Adyghe cheese mousse: this appetizer has been on the menu for three years. She's great, I'm not going to take her out.
On that first menu were your new ideas - or what you've been wanting to do for a long time?
In fact, the fact that I could cook interesting things from the products that were on hand. This is still happening. There is no longer a “shop” in St. Petersburg, but the range of products has not changed much.
Do the same farmers supply them to you or what?
No, we almost completely changed the base. We now have a separate buyer working for us, and he builds it himself: he meets farmers, arranges tastings, we taste and choose. Everyone greeted the sanctions so enthusiastically, I must say: interesting suppliers and interesting products appeared. There are not many of them, of course. And there are many controversial issues: in logistics, in understanding our needs, and in farming opportunities, but there is already progress. But now we want to expand our geography a little, because the Leningrad region is very stingy with food. It turns out that we are like a Rubik's cube: red, yellow, green, blue - and you spin them endlessly. It seems to be interesting, but there is a certain limit to the options, and soon they will begin to repeat themselves.
Igor talks about what new Russian cuisine is for the special project of the exhibition “Feast”
And when Sergey and Matilda came to the “Lavka” and talked about their future restaurant - what did they want to do?
Initially it was a completely different story. This was supposed to be a place with strong alcohol; there were about forty types of vodka. Distillates, a dozen tinctures. And snacks from local products to go with strong alcohol. Now we have come to a completely different weight category and define ourselves as a restaurant with gastronomic food made from local products, our main alcoholic emphasis is on wine.
Why?
Because people want to drink wine with food
Has the food changed accordingly?
Yes, it has changed a lot. And we changed. And the attitude towards the restaurant has changed - both for us and for the guests. In general, everything has changed over these three years - radically. The volumes have changed, the people have all changed, I don’t have a single person left from the opening of the restaurant.
Cooks?
Both the cooks and those in the hall.
Is this such a turnover?
No, there are people who have worked for two years, but that’s not the point. Compared to abroad, our situation with cooks and waiters is different. There, the waiter is a person who occupies a serious position in society, not a student who is just working part-time, he may well be a serious adult man who understands wine, cuisine and life and who enjoys well-deserved respect. We very often pay attention to this abroad: how proud they are of their profession, of their restaurant, how they describe it and how they talk about the cuisine. This is quite an adventure. You not only evaluate the cuisine in a restaurant, but also the atmosphere. We recently visited Noma ( Copenhagen restaurant of chef Rene Redzepi, 2nd place in the list of 50 best restaurants peace.- Approx. ed. ) - and again they were amazed at the same thing that they saw there a year and a half ago. And then we were simply stunned by how cool everything was there. We walk in and they just all fall out, everyone hugs, shouting: “Welcome to Noma!” These are trainings, yes, we realized this later, of course. But you are just so numb from the threshold: they pick you up by the arms, undress you, immediately seat you at the table, circle around you, tell you, describe you. You can simply stop any person there - a sommelier, an administrator, a waiter - and he will tell you everything about the kitchen in detail: how they remove the husks, infuse, grind, strain - everything in general! It often happens here that you ask the waiter: “What kind of fish?” - and he shrugs, like: “I’ll go and ask.” This is simply unacceptable. And there: firstly, the waiters look like actors, and so do the cooks. Secondly, they hold on to this place, they are proud of their work, they shake, they worry about any mistake. Here... Well, what can I tell you: I worked here, went to another place. There are two big differences between what happens there and what happens here. Everyone wonders why we don’t have Michelin, the fifth, the tenth. Yes, because we are from completely different backgrounds.
And this doesn't change over the years?
Something is changing. Here we need to dig deeper, this is something fundamental. This education, this mentality has a big impact. It's difficult to describe. In many ways, it just depends on the people. Because, it seems to me, in Europe people are more organized, more responsible, more meticulous, patient, and attentive. We're all kind of lax. Some are missing. They can do something and not understand what they are doing. I recently read an interview with one chef, either Bontempi or someone else, I don’t remember, to be honest. And he was surprised there: you, a cook, spend the same amount of energy if you cut everything into neat, even cubes - and if you cut into uneven ones; so what difference does it make - if you can do bad, why can’t you do good, will you need the same amount of strength? And I can’t understand this either.
You say, you changed all suppliers. Why?
This all happened gradually. There are a lot of different factors, and price matters a lot. Let's be honest, "Lavka", of course, is dying. It just bends. Well, why overpay if people still look in the right column ( on the menu; that is, on prices.- Approx. ed. )? For example, we changed suppliers of rabbits, and we made our rabbit dish 200 rubles cheaper.
Made a dish cheaper by 200 rubles?
Wow.
And they are taking it very actively, but before this they didn’t take it like that; before it cost 900 rubles. Well, who will take a rabbit for 900 rubles? And we couldn’t put a lower price. But now they have found another supplier. And there was a lot of this: they couldn’t achieve quality, logistics. For example, in the summer they could not ensure that fish were delivered in ice. How is it possible: they bring it to us, but the fish already smells? As a result, we found people who could deliver it in ice. Everything is built differently, a very ornate story. The sanctions have been extended, and I think people will finally begin to move. They understand that this benefits both us and them - everyone. There will be changes for the better.
What products are missing in the Leningrad region?
I don’t have enough vegetables, even the simplest, most banal ones. Celery root. For some reason they don’t want to raise him here. There are many berries - we have a lot of desserts, but I practically don’t use berries anywhere, only in the season - strawberries, currants, blueberries. And in winter, in our new menu we have one dessert made of turnips and black radish, and another made entirely of potatoes.
How is it made from potatoes?
It was an excellent dessert. This will be “Crumpy Potatoes” as it is. The potato is baked, the entire core is removed, only the shell remains, we dry it and put baked potato ice cream on it to order. We bake the whole potato, pound it, then bake it again, then pound it again until it turns into crumbs, infuse cream, and make ice cream out of it. Then - liquid potato mousse with vanilla, just airy puree, with it, fried pumpkin seeds, nuts, on top of small gherkins in syrup, slightly boiled, a kind of pickled cucumber jam, sweet-sour-salty. How it came about: I made a dessert of meringue with dill in the summer - yogurt ice cream, black currants and fresh cucumbers V sugar syrup, just marinated them a little. The guests said: oh, pickled cucumbers, what nonsense. And I thought: we should actually make something out of salty foods; why nonsense - salty taste, sour and sweet: quite compatible. The result was a dessert with the taste of potatoes, and also fresh dill on top: potatoes, dill, pickles and crunchy nuts, seeds - very much. Different textures, different tastes, everything is harmonious. Potatoes are neutral, calm, not very expressive; in the same time mashed potatoes with vanilla, right? The taste of baked potatoes in ice cream, crispy sunflower seeds, sour-salty-sweet cucumbers and fresh dill - such a dessert note, which, by the way, is very popular abroad. In general, many people now make desserts from vegetables; in almost every restaurant we visit, we try something like this: beet granite, burnt artichoke creme brulee. This is an absolutely normal story, so in winter we will have a couple of these too. Second dessert: turnip with radish. Turnips are actually sweet. I made rings out of it and cut out the core with a small culinary ring, it turned out like a pineapple, you know how they sell it in jars. I vacuum sealed it all in syrup and cooked it sous vide. Grilled. And black radish goes with it: in childhood they would hollow it out and pour honey into it to make a cough medicine. I also hollowed it out, poured in honey, infused it - and made ice cream from this honey. And I put this ice cream back into this radish. And the radish is black, when you cut off the top it is white, when you open the core it looks like a coconut. It turns out hot pineapple and cold coconut-shaped ice cream: you cut off a piece of turnip - and a spoonful of cold radish ice cream. An interesting thing - both in taste, and in temperature contrast, and in concept, and it looks - it’s completely simple!
You cook only from farm products - but how much sense does this even make? What's wrong with industrial ones?
It seems to me that this makes sense from a slightly different angle. Zimin, by the way, wrote about this: that we all starved for a long time, and now, when chicken is cheap, this is the most optimal situation - everyone can eat enough of it. And other products. It's not that it's wrong or bad. My point of view is simply different. We used to eat strawberries in the summer, we were waiting for them, and they were very tasty. And now it is available all year round. But I don’t eat it in winter, because it’s not tasty at all. I’d rather wait until May, when it’s already ripe and juicy. Same thing with chicken. Everyone understands perfectly well that if you go to the market, buy some village chicken and cook soup from it, it will be really rich. But if you buy these fatty legs, no. This is the difference. It’s the same with our menu: it seems like I’m limited in my choice, but at the same time it develops my imagination. Under other circumstances, I would not have thought of such a dessert - one might say, I was brought face to face with this turnip.
So restrictions are good?
Yes. It works. We were in Fäviken ( chef Magnus Nilsson's restaurant in a remote area in northern Sweden; 25th place on The World's 50 Best Restaurants list.- Approx. ed. ) - and this can simply be fooled. Have you seen the movie "The Martian"? I draw such a parallel - this is an example of what a person can do in extreme conditions or when he is simply put in a situation that requires decisive action. He can move mountains. It’s the same with Magnus Nilsson: you don’t understand how a person, being in the middle of nowhere, in a forest, 70 kilometers from the nearest populated area, manages to cook such things. Fantastically interesting, thoughtful, tasty, harmonious, which look organic in this house with hanging bunches of herbs and deer skins. Of course, in the city this is perceived differently, we don’t hang our skins, we have a city restaurant, there are bouquets of wildflowers on the tables. But, of course, we tell you that our products are local, that we always have a seasonal menu - and it contains dishes that last a very short period of time, and you definitely need to try them, because next week they will no longer be available. And I almost never return these dishes to the menu; in three years there have been literally a couple of cases. That is, it is constant work, constant drive, although it is very difficult and there are a lot of difficulties. I’m telling you, the situation that we have, this lack of development, is due to the fact that people are afraid of difficulties.
Lack of development where?
By and large, everywhere, in all areas. But if we take it specifically - in gastronomy. Progressive people who travel, are interested, are inspired by someone or something are trying to do something. The rest just go with the flow, don’t resist, don’t try to change anything. Why do we have such identical, faceless menus in our restaurants? There are five thousand restaurants in the city, and you can count the number of ideological chefs who are trying to come up with something interesting on two hands. Or even one. Anton Isakov, Dima Blinov, Zhenya Vikentyev, Ilya Kokotovsky, Anton Abrezov. I don't even know who else. For me, basically everything. Vanya Berezutsky is now from Moscow.
You talked about the fingers of two hands when we met two years ago - and what, a third hand never appeared?
No. Well, I can literally name a couple of new people. Ilya Kokotovsky from Molto B uono recently returned from a 9-month internship, this is our neighbor, next door to the house, on Zhukovsky Street. Ilya trained for nine months at Mugaritz ( restaurant of Basque chef Andoni Luis Aduriz, 6th place in the list of the 50 best restaurants in the world ), before that three months at Noma. Now he has launched a set of 25 courses, mostly using local products. This is an example of a goal-oriented person: he completes 25 courses every Wednesday. Who else in our city would dare to do this?
And is it in demand?
There, in my opinion, they can serve a set to fourteen people at the same time; the kitchen will not be able to work more to ensure that everything is clear. There are fourteen people in total, all dishes are served simultaneously. And even serving such a number of dishes simultaneously and exactly is very difficult. Here: a person has set a goal, is trying to change something, to show what he has learned, what he can do.
“Kokoko” is three years old - has the restaurant scene in St. Petersburg changed much during this time?
Certainly. There are interesting chefs, and there are more of them, which makes me happy. But something big has to happen here. Again, the situation cannot be changed significantly without government support.
And how can she influence this? So how did she help Redzepi?
Redzepi is Redzepi, this will not work with us. She helped with the same sanctions, if we talk about local products. But if only they took up the education system, looked at what is happening in all these peteukhi, who studies there and what they are taught, at all these notes on borscht and everything else! So that students are not powdered with this theory, but taught to cook, invited interesting chefs to classes, sent to internships. I have never been approached by a vocational school about an internship. And I would take it, let them see what they decided to devote their lives to, and understand whether they want to work in the kitchen in the future or not. Most people who go to culinary school don't intend to be chefs at all. Or they become like the ones I meet at interviews - who don’t care about anything and who, in fact, don’t know how to do anything, but went to a vocational school because it was close to home or because they were incapable of anything more. There really are a majority of them. If a person is interested, he very quickly makes his way and literally in his twenties becomes a sous chef or chef. Which is also wrong. Still, he must go through all the stages, starting with peeling the potatoes. As, again, it happens in the West: a man peels potatoes for a year so that he can be entrusted with sorting out the greens, then he is put at one station, then he shows that he is worthy of another, and people hold on to their place. And here it is: I didn’t like it - I went to another restaurant, where I worked less, where the schedule was freer, where they paid more. Therefore, the public education system needs to be reviewed. We don't have many private culinary schools.
Well, the Swissam school opened in St. Petersburg two years ago.
One. And it’s private, and not many people have the money to pay for training. What I mean is that since the free education system exists and state money is allocated for it, it means that we need to somehow pump it up and develop it.
So. Is Moscow's restaurant scene very different from St. Petersburg?
Very. I think Peter is so hipster. Moscow is more serious, more focused on business. We have a lot of projects opened by people who have very little to do with restaurant business and to business in general.
But these places work...
I’m just looking at how often the signs on Pestel Street have changed over these three years. I see that this does not lead to anything good. That is, literally: you see how they hang it up, and soon they dismantle it, the cafe worked for three weeks - and that’s it. Because the approach is this: people open restaurants for unknown reasons, for whom, for what audience. They don’t think about the menu and who will need it. They all open with the same carbon copy. We opened Kokoko very spontaneously, launched everything quickly and didn’t really think through anything. But we had a concept, we had ideas - and little by little we implemented them all and have already moved much further from what we were striving for. And big changes await us in the future. We are moving to a new place ( Cococo will soon open on the site of Alain Ducasse's Mix restaurant. - Approx. ed.).
You say that in St. Petersburg they open establishments for whom it is not clear. Who is “Cococo” for?
For all. We do not define any specific segment or audience for ourselves. These are just people who are interested primarily in food, because we do not have any alternative entertainment such as hookahs and music, there are no themed evenings, no coupons, no breakfasts, no lunches. We have a menu and a seasonal menu and that's it. And people come to us who are really interested in this. There are a lot of foreigners, a lot of Muscovites, by the way - on weekends there are practically only Muscovites. The age is completely different, the income can also be different. We have a basement, we don’t have such chicks with hairstyles, there are no sugar daddies, our people actually come to eat, they even eat at the bar. We don’t have comrades who like to chat with the bartender for two hours. Because the main criterion: people must be interested in food.
And Sergei and Matilda - what is their role?
Sergei actually does not interfere in internal affairs at all. He is a grateful eater: he eats and praises, he likes everything. And Matilda is aware of all the things that are happening: what’s broken where, a change of supplier, we discuss all the updates with her, she tastes all the new menu items.
And did you go to Noma with her?
We've been to a lot of places already, to El Celler de Can Roca ( best restaurant in the world as of 2015.- Approx. ed. ), in Mugaritz, in Tickets ( tapas bar of one of the best chefs in the world, Ferran Adria.- Approx. ed. ). Probably in thirty of the hundred best restaurants in the world. There is something to compare with, someone to look up to and something to strive for.
